{"id":1402,"date":"2023-07-13T03:55:45","date_gmt":"2023-07-13T03:55:45","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.taveaucreativeleadership.com\/?p=1402"},"modified":"2023-07-13T15:53:13","modified_gmt":"2023-07-13T15:53:13","slug":"the-ai-and-i-what-would-david-du-plessis-say-now-false-doctrines-after-the-charismatic-renewal","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.taveaucreativeleadership.com\/?p=1402","title":{"rendered":"“THE Ai AND I” WHAT WOULD DAVID DU PLESSIS SAY NOW? FALSE DOCTRINES AFTER THE CHARISMATIC RENEWAL"},"content":{"rendered":"

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NOTE THE ABOVE :”‘Failing to discern the Body of Christ correctly” is like Communion , it makes or breaks “peaceful unity” and safe, trustworthy “Whole” ‘community” this it is sacred, and as before the Lord”(for God is watching) Bible teaching” Paul teaches in Communion (Lord’s supper) that “some died young and were ill for failing to discern the Body Of Christ correctly. So “Beware!”<\/em><\/p>\n

So, for every human being, as we ALL speak in one form of “tongues” or another..be they in Book of Acts form, or World Wide Well Known, Or Good Neighbor, Fellow Church Attender and\/or Foreign tongue..plus even big Gossipy Unsafe Tongues <\/em>\u00a0https:\/\/www.esv.org\/verses\/Matt.%2012%3A37<\/em>\/<\/a><\/p>\n

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“The offering of the Lord was despised in that day” (in the I Samuel,” Eli, Temple high priest, ministry office days) The LP “Boys Will Be Boys” Club in local, high visibility, senior ministry (yet so it is right now… plus, it’s maybe been like that since the 1980s TV media scandals). Prophet T is just pondering.<\/em><\/p>\n

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Assess beneath as a Sr Apostle “Tennis Ball Selah” (meaning that the BALL IS IN YOUR COURT as to How to Proceed from this Time Forward)<\/em>
\n“THE AI AND I” WHAT WOULD DR DAVID DU PLESSIS SAY “NOW?”<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0FALSE DOCTRINES SINCE THE CHARISMATIC RENEWAL<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

(C)2023 Taveau D’Arcy All copyrights reserved<\/p>\n

FIRST PART<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

THIS IS BIG HISTORY IN LIGHT OF MODERN DAY VERSIONS OF “CHARISMATIC”<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Q. WHO WAS DR DAVID DU PLESSIS?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

https:\/\/digitalshowcase.oru.edu\/duplessis\/<\/a><\/p>\n

https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/David_du_Plessis<\/a><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Q.\u00a0 ABOUT THE\u00a0 CHARISMATIC RENEWAL?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Charismatic_movement<\/a><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Q. WHAT WAS, WHAT HAS BECOME OF CATHOLIC CHARISMATIC RENEWAL ?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Catholic_Charismatic_Renewal<\/a><\/p>\n

CHARISMATIC RENEWAL WIDE AREA..FOND MEMORIES<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

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My mother, a Southern Baptist pastor’s<\/strong> wife, got healed at a Catholic Charismatic healing prayer group in Norfolk, VA (Living Waters) in the mid-70s. After this Catholic Charismatic renewal spread, T’s mom had X-rays of lumps in her uterus before, and they had her signed up for an operation. But they laid hands on her and prayed at this meeting (and Mom kept her faith up, ongoing reading her Bible), and the lumps disappeared. They had X-rays afterward showing that, so they canceled her operation. The doctor wrote on her chart, “It’s a miracle.” Shortly afterwards, she was invited to share about it on local radio. P.S. She lived another 42 years and died at age 90.<\/span><\/div>\n
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  • My sister and mother receive<\/strong>d “the baptism of the Holy Spirit” I believe in that Living Waters faith-filled group. But my father, who was a Louisville, KY Baptist Seminary grad, had been taught that “tongues and the Book of Acts had passed away,” so he never went for that. I, the pastor’s firstborn daughter, was a Jesus Person and had gotten the Holy Spirit baptism about 4-5 years before Mom’s healing miracle. It’s always been calm, peaceful, and helpful.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/div>\n
    MY OWN BACK THEN, OVER ALL IMPRESSIONS:<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n
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    • From my own recollection,<\/strong> Dr David Du Plessis brought what is widespread “Charismatic Renewal” to the USA in the ’60s or ’70s. It also partook and started among Catholics and Episcopalians, the more traditional tried and true denominations. Yet, it was not a famous showbiz when it started out, back then. It was quiet, gentle, and peaceful.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n

       <\/p>\n

        \n
      • I recall that everyone i<\/strong>n the early days of what later evolved into the “area charismatic” was regarded by Jesus’ standards, meaning all were viewed as peers, equals. Back in the organic Charismatic Renewal, all servant leaders were without celebrity or big little you, unlike today.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n

         <\/p>\n

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        • There was no charismatic<\/strong> PC shepherding movement back then, which we need to discuss below.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n

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          • There was “NO” s<\/strong>ocial climbing in Christian ministry<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n

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            • There was “NO” one big “stellar<\/strong>” attractive face or known name.. .. it was so much MORE about the Lord ..focused on “Him” and gentle, empowering, renewing HIS Holy Spirit..<\/span><\/li>\n
            • ..and also at the<\/strong> approarchable ministry local levels<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n

               <\/p>\n

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              • In my version of this,<\/span><\/strong> on the East South in the South, false doctrines were at a low key, loving, real minimal. Purposely said, as I had been reared in sound doctrine and Bible scholars, teachers, ministers, coming down from both sides of the loving, mature, emotionally healthy family, none of whom were biased, racist, or accusative, competitive.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n

                 <\/p>\n

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                • (To me at least) It<\/strong> seemed more akin to the Billy Graham winning the Lost meets Jesus People, which is my lifestyle.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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                  • If I could relate wh<\/strong>at has been going on today, in light of the modern Holy Spirit, which may, in part, resemble what I recall of the Charismatic Renewal, Jesus People, and later Vineyard days, I would say that the overall essence might be somewhat akin to a lesser Asbury Revival (Asbury is farther along due to the modern times). But it still keeps bearing similar kind, “servant leader” core, pure heart, true fruit.<\/span>**Note: Yet,\u00a0 I was in Virginia,<\/strong> just graduated out of Southern Baptist University, and caught fine glimpses of this via off-campus praise and worship (which was new) and word of mouth.<\/span><\/li>\n
                  • \"\"<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n

                    In light of word-of-mouth today<\/strong> and many acknowledging mature understanding about both His presence and His love and power, plus all the Christian marketing, packaging, and the elite presentation, the various trials in Christian ministry and walk, and training for 3-4 decades which has produced expertise, a well of knowledge, amazing worship, production, and deep seer skills with many “knowing” both the Holy Bible word, mixing in with faith and His Holy Spirit anointing.<\/span><\/p>\n

                    However, I’m wondering what bot<\/strong>h Jesus the Messiah and Dr. David Du Plessis and many others (e.g., Billy Graham) and also myself would say with regard to the following big verse:<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

                    \"\"SO WE BGIN OUR JOURNEY…BACKWARDS .THEN UP TO THE PRESENT…<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

                    BACK THEN? WHEN A NEW VISITOR ENTERED THE CHURCH FELLOWSHIP, <\/strong>they would greeted warmly and given a loving, respectful “accepted in the beloved” welcoming smile. (meaning not a deep scan, turf protecting, “size them up” as if they are enemy.) NOR prophetic, pastoral, staff stereotyping, typecasting to quickly sort them out and “Pet Preferred” or “Not OUR Wanted Kind”(race,gender, age, looks, income)<\/span><\/p>\n

                    BACK THEN?<\/strong> It was new and interesting and calmly wonderous .Nobody had “arrived ” in ministry and\/or “seen it all , heard it all, done it all before” ..majorly immune and mean indifferent..for there no “caste systems” among ministry Jesus Beloved.<\/span><\/p>\n

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                     <\/p>\n

                    BACK THEN ? <\/strong>NO CRAZYMATIC SHEPHERDS..SHEEP… IN FLESHLY CLOTHING…or Ego Ambition…Into making it BIG In “I wanna become World Wide Rich and Famous”
                    \nChiefly? there was NO bling.<\/span><\/p>\n

                    \n

                    Also,there were NO “<\/strong>in crowds” and “out crowds” in the attending major sized gifted congregations.<\/span><\/p>\n

                    And NO “Boys Clu<\/strong>b” (at least in the first leader big days)<\/span><\/p>\n

                      \n
                    • Gentle past worship leader da<\/strong>ys: Nobody ever sized up from afar and tried to read my mind as an “it” (subhuman), then avoid all speaking based upon type.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n

                       <\/p>\n

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                      • Nowadays, the authority<\/strong> of the believer (which came in later after the “Charismatic renewal” and from persons used by God on media, famous well known Book of Acts\/Holy Ghost names…has morphed into the authoritarian who wants to be over and control every believer, perceived power and position, in hope of perks. It is reproduced and keeps reproducing tribal neo-Phariseeism and this apostolic training ministry. PC shepherding, the WELP, money, and massive big boss achievement, entertainment, masses of true followers and fans.<\/span>More later<\/span>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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                        Cross Body Unity Movement Official Logo<\/em><\/p>\n

                         <\/p>\n

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                        NOW THE TAVEAU ASKS CHAT GBT AI. SOME REAL STRONG DIFFERENCES IN BEFORE , DURING AND IN THE PRESENT:\u00a0<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                        PURPOSE? This is to enlighten<\/strong> what is going on in much grassroots, which is now primarily “big boss” charismatic leader doctrines that have surfaced. Not ambitious and servant-first like the early days of charismatics.<\/span><\/p>\n

                        TARGET…<\/strong>.While what is mentioned beneath is American “Charismatic Renewal,” I call for “Charismatic Ministry Reform.”<\/span><\/p>\n

                        \"\"<\/p>\n

                        in light of the “former charismatic renewal” & Jesus People.. and prior..so this is modern from 80’s onward<\/p>\n

                        TD ASK ChatGPT Ai:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

                        (LOCAL, AREA “CHURCH TALK”)
                        \nQ. CHURCH HOPPERS<\/strong>…In the First Church were the chief apostles concerned about “church hoppers?” Did they keep records of persons who went from “house to house” “church to church” (like many area apostles, pastors, prophets. do today)?<\/span><\/p>\n

                        AI ANSWERS:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

                        There is no explicit record<\/strong> in the New Testament indicating that the chief apostles in the early Church were specifically concerned about “church hoppers” or that they kept records of individuals who moved from house to house or church to church. The focus of the apostles in the New Testament was primarily on preaching the Gospel, establishing and nurturing local churches, and equipping believers for ministry.<\/span><\/p>\n

                         <\/p>\n

                        While the early Church<\/strong> emphasized the importance of fellowship, community, and the gathering of believers, there is no indication that the apostles had a system for monitoring or keeping records of individual movements among different gatherings or communities. The early Church was characterized by a sense of unity, mutual support, and shared faith, rather than a fragmented emphasis on individual attendance.<\/span><\/p>\n

                         <\/p>\n

                        It is important to note th<\/strong>at the New Testament was written in a specific cultural and historical context, and the dynamics of the early Church may differ from contemporary practices. Today, church attendance and participation can vary due to a variety of factors, including personal preferences, geographic mobility, and theological alignment.<\/span><\/p>\n

                         <\/p>\n

                        While some modern church leader<\/strong>s and pastors may track attendance or maintain records for practical purposes such as pastoral care or communication, it is not a biblical mandate or a specific requirement based on the practices of the early Church. Church leaders today should focus on nurturing a sense of community, discipleship, and spiritual growth within their congregations while respecting the freedom of individuals to engage with various expressions of Christian fellowship according to their personal circumstances and convictions.<\/span><\/p>\n

                         <\/p>\n

                        \"\"<\/p>\n

                        THOUGHT: I fought the Old Timey\u00a0 LAW and the LORD won!”<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

                        TD ASKS AI:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

                        Q. What is the difference between<\/strong> “voluntary Christian ministry church attendance ” Being under authority” ” being under required covering authority<\/span>
                        \nQ. Was there any First<\/strong> Church directive that EACH Believer “must” be “under” a “local pastor” …<\/span>
                        \nQ. Describe how the First<\/strong> church would operate in authority using “chain of command” Ephesians 5:21 in a fellowship, ministry?<\/span><\/p>\n

                        AI RESPONDS:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                        NOTE THIS:<\/strong> In the New Testament, there is a distinction between voluntary Christian ministry church attendance, being under authority, and being under a required covering authority.<\/span><\/p>\n

                          \n
                        • VOLUNTARY Christian Ministry Church Attendanc<\/strong>e: The New Testament encourages believers to gather together for worship, teaching, fellowship, and mutual edification. Church attendance is voluntary and stems from the desire to grow in faith, worship God, and build community with other believers. It is a personal decision and commitment to be part of a local body of believers.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n

                           <\/p>\n

                            \n
                          • BEING UNDER (VOLUNTARY) AUTHORITY<\/strong>: The New Testament teaches that believers are to submit to spiritual leaders and authorities within the context of the local church. This submission is voluntary and based on respect for their leadership, the recognition of their role in shepherding and guiding the flock, and the desire to benefit from their spiritual wisdom and care.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n

                             <\/p>\n

                              \n
                            • BEING “UNDER” REQUIRED GOVERNING AUTHORITY<\/strong>: The concept of required covering authority, where believers must be under a specific individual or leader for spiritual covering, is not explicitly taught in the New Testament. While accountability and guidance from spiritual leaders are important, the ultimate authority and covering for believers come from their relationship with God through Jesus Christ.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n

                               <\/p>\n

                                \n
                              • OFFICE\/AUTHORITY CHAIN OF COMMAND:<\/strong> Regarding the “chain of command” and Ephesians 5:21, it is important to note that Ephesians 5:21 states, “submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.” This verse emphasizes mutual submission within the body of Christ, where believers are called to serve and submit to one another in love and humility.<\/span><\/li>\n
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                              • \"\"<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n

                                TD ASKS A<\/strong>I:<\/span>
                                \nQ. ALSO tells the diffe<\/strong>rences in “freedom in Christ” vs “Being controlled or dominated”<\/span>
                                \nQ. OR being caught up in a “cult?<\/span><\/p>\n

                                AI REPLIES:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                Regarding the difference<\/strong>s between freedom in Christ and being controlled or dominated or caught up in a cult, the New Testament emphasizes the freedom believers have in Christ.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                This freedom includes<\/strong> freedom from sin, freedom to love and serve others, and freedom from religious legalism. However, freedom in Christ does not imply a license to live in disobedience or disregard for biblical principles.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                Being controlled or dominated<\/strong> in an unhealthy manner or being caught up in a cult typically involves manipulation, abuse of power, and the distortion of biblical truth.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                It is important for believers<\/strong> to exercise discernment, study the Scriptures, and be rooted in sound biblical teaching to avoid being led astray or being part of harmful situations.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                \"\"<\/p>\n

                                TD ASKS AI<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                Q. Did the First Church chief apostles de<\/strong>mand that all believers be “SUBMITTED.” Furthermore, did they keep tabs on persons in the Christian community to record if they were “UNSUBMITTED?” OR “SUBMITTED?”<\/span>
                                \nAND, Q. Is that a Bible New Testament Rule?<\/span><\/strong>
                                \nPS How does that apply today?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                AI RESPONDS:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                In the New Testament,<\/strong> there is no explicit record of the chief apostles keeping detailed tabs on individual members of the early Church or requiring submission in the sense of monitoring their daily lives or activities. The role of the apostles was primarily focused on teaching, preaching, guiding, and nurturing the spiritual growth of the believers.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                While the apostles provided<\/strong> pastoral care and instruction, their focus was on the spiritual well-being of the believers and the overall health and growth of the Church. They exhorted the believers to live according to the teachings of Christ, to love one another, and to pursue holiness. However, they did not have a role in micromanaging the personal affairs or activities of individual believers.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                \"\"<\/p>\n

                                TD ASKS AI<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                Tell the difference betwee<\/strong>n the First Church “accountability” and “the modern submission” instituted teaching?<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                AI RESPONDS:<\/span><\/strong>
                                \nThe New Testament does highlig<\/strong>ht the importance of accountability and mutual care within the Christian community. Believers were encouraged to support and exhort one another, to address issues of sin and conflict, and to promote unity and love within the body of Christ.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                However, this was not primarily<\/strong> the responsibility of the apostles alone but a shared responsibility among the believers.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                In terms of modern application,<\/strong> the principles of accountability, care, and mutual support within the Church continue to be important. Pastors, leaders, and fellow believers can play a role in guiding, teaching, and providing spiritual oversight within the context of their respective roles.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                However, it is crucial to<\/strong> balance<\/span> this with respect for personal freedom, privacy, and individual responsibility.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                Different churches and<\/strong> denominations may have varying practices and structures for providing pastoral care and accountability.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                It is essential for believers<\/strong> to find healthy and biblically grounded communities where they can receive guidance, support, and accountability while also recognizing their own personal responsibility in living out their faith.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                Overall, the New Testament em<\/strong>phasizes the importance of personal relationship with God, the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and the communal responsibility of believers in fostering spiritual growth and mutual care within the body of Christ.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                \"\"<\/p>\n

                                TD ASKS AI <\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                “Have you ever heard of the ministers<\/strong> who use the term that they are “apostles in the gates of the city” (over all others)<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                AI STATES:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                The term “apostles<\/strong> in the gates of the city” or similar variations is not found in the Bible and does not have its origins in the early Church or apostolic teachings. It is a concept that emerged in certain modern Christian circles, particularly within the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) movement.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                The New Apostolic Reformation<\/strong> is a movement that emerged in the late 20th century, which emphasizes the restoration of apostolic governance and authority in the Church. This movement, led by various individuals and groups, including C. Peter Wagner, sought to establish a framework for contemporary apostles and prophets to exercise significant authority and leadership in the Church.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                The specific phrase “apostles<\/strong> in the gates of the city” or similar expressions are not universally used within the NAR movement. However, it reflects the idea that these modern-day apostles are called to occupy positions of spiritual authority and influence, comparable to gatekeepers who have significant impact on the spiritual climate and direction of cities or regions.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                It’s important to note that<\/strong> the teachings and practices of the NAR movement have been a subject of debate and controversy within the broader Christian community. Different Christian denominations and scholars may hold differing views on the validity and interpretation of contemporary apostolic roles and structures.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                Regarding C. Peter Wagne<\/strong>r, he was a prominent figure within the New Apostolic Reformation movement and an influential professor of Church Growth at Fuller Theological Seminary. He contributed to the development of the NAR theology and advocated for the recognition and establishment of modern apostolic ministries. However, it is essential to conduct further research and engage with a variety of perspectives to form a comprehensive understanding of the movement and its teachings.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                ASIDE NOTE: (TD HAS SPECIFIC, UP CLOSE DIR<\/strong>E USA ACCUSER, ATTACK SOLEMN EXAMPLES DUE TO THIS GROUP..WHEN GOD ALLOWS, I WILL SPEAK SPECIFICALLY BUT NOT TARGET THE INDIVIDUAl PERSONS)(ON BEHALF OF THE CHRISTIAN BODY, A SAMPLE FRUIT, ON BEHALF, OF MANY SIMILAR HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS OR TENS OF THOUSANDS) Luke Eye Witness<\/em><\/p>\n

                                \"\"<\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                TD ADVICES” UP TO HERE MOST OF THIS<\/strong>, if not Majority of this is the main roots in WELP authority.(especially and most significantly the latter!)<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                \"\"<\/p>\n

                                TD ASKS ABOUT THE OVERSEER “SHEPHERDING MOVEMENT” (1970s)<\/span><\/strong>
                                \nQ. Reminding of the “Shepherding<\/strong>” (Deep South, Florida) governing ministry movent: Bob Mumford Don Bahsam and New Wine Magazine<\/span>
                                \nQ. How does that tie with First<\/strong> Church authority and Christian freedom(legalism, to control leader women, servant minorities)<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                AI RESPONDS:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                The Shepherding or Discipleship<\/strong> Movement, associated with Bob Mumford, Don Basham and others, emerged in the 1970s and emphasized a strong hierarchical structure of authority and submission within the context of local churches.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                It sought to implement a<\/strong> “shepherding” model where believers were placed under the authority and guidance of specific leaders or “shepherds” for various aspects of their lives.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                (TD SEES THIS A “SUBMISSION MAIN KEY” )<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

                                Ai continues:<\/strong> The teachings of the Shepherding Movement were controversial and received criticism due to reports of abusive practices and excessive control by some leaders.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                The movement placed heavy emphasis<\/strong> on submission, accountability, and obedience to spiritual authority, which led to concerns about manipulation and the potential for spiritual abuse.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                AI’S NOTE: It is important to<\/strong> note that the Shepherding Movement is not directly connected to the early Church or the principles of authority and freedom as depicted in the New Testament.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                While the New Testament does<\/strong> emphasize the importance of spiritual oversight and accountability within the context of the local church, it does not promote the kind of top-down control and submission that was characteristic of the Shepherding Movement.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                \"\"<\/p>\n

                                TD ASKS AI”<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                Q. IS “Shepherding movement”<\/strong> connected to New Apostolic Reformation “there are certain apostles over the gates of every city?”<\/span><\/p>\n

                                AI RESPONDS:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                As for its connection to th<\/strong>e New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) movement and the concept of “apostles in the gate of the city,” there may be some overlapping theological ideas or shared influences, but it is important to recognize that these are separate movements with their own distinct teachings and practices.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                The NAR movement,<\/strong> as mentioned earlier, focuses on the restoration of apostolic governance and authority in the Church, while the Shepherding Movement had a different emphasis on hierarchical spiritual oversight.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                It is important for individuals<\/strong> to exercise discernment, study the Scriptures, and seek wisdom from God when engaging with various teachings and movements. Evaluating them based on biblical principles, the character of Christ, and the fruit they produce is crucial in navigating these areas of theology and practice.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                TD NOTES” “PERSONAL FREEDOM IN CHRIST”(Noble Berean Bible Study to sort it all out)<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

                                \"\"<\/p>\n

                                TAVEAU ASK AI<\/span><\/strong>
                                \nQ. In the 1970s shepherding moveme<\/strong>nt..discuss leader males being OVER all women and any more<\/span><\/p>\n

                                AI RESPONDS:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                The Shepherding Movement i<\/strong>n the 1970s did promote a hierarchical structure that included the idea of male leaders having authority over women. This teaching was influenced by a complementarian view of gender roles, which posits that men have a primary leadership role and authority in the family and the Church, while women are to submit to male leadership.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                However, it is important to n<\/strong>ote that this view of gender roles and authority is not universally accepted among Christians and denominations. Different theological perspectives exist regarding gender roles and equality within the Church, and there are diverse interpretations of biblical passages related to this topic.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                In recent decades<\/strong>, there has been significant progress in discussions surrounding gender equality and a reevaluation of traditional interpretations of Scripture. Many Christians embrace an egalitarian perspective that affirms the equal value, worth, and gifting of both men and women in all areas of life and ministry.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                It’s important to approach discussion<\/strong>s on gender roles and leadership in a manner that respects different viewpoints and seeks to uphold biblical principles of love, respect, and the recognition of the gifts and calling of all believers, regardless of gender.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                TD ASIDE: TD IS FOR “HUMAN EQUALITY’ REGARDLESS OF TYPE, GENDER, AGE, RACE, CULTURE AND SET BELIEFS, FAITH, GO TO CHURCH OR NOT. <\/span><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                OUR HOME MANTRA…. EORR “EQUAL OPPORTUNITY “REAL RESPECT” FOR THE OFFICE OF EVERY HUMAN MADE IN GOD’S IMAGE (PSALM 139<\/span>)<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                \u00a0SAY EORR!<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                \"\"<\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                TAVEAU ASKS AI:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                Q Was the 1970s overseer<\/strong> “Shepherding” movement rigid, legalistic about “women with authority” and were leader women allowed to train, preach move in the spirit<\/span><\/p>\n

                                AI ANSWERS:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                Yes, the Shepherding Movement<\/strong> of the 1970s was known for its rigidity and legalistic approach to gender roles and authority. In many cases, the movement promoted a hierarchical structure that limited the roles and authority of women within the church.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                ** (NOTE) It adhered to<\/strong> a complementarian perspective, which held that men should hold positions of leadership and authority, while women were to be submissive and restricted in certain roles.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                This approach often led to<\/strong> restrictions on women in leadership positions, limited opportunities for women to exercise their spiritual gifts, and an emphasis on male dominance within the movement. Women were often discouraged from pursuing roles such as teaching, preaching, or holding positions of authority within the church<\/span><\/p>\n

                                (TD SAYS “under Apostle Paul common doctrine it IS THEIR CHOICE whom to serve).<\/span><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                YET NOTE<\/strong>: However, it’s important to note that not all individuals or groups within the Shepherding Movement had the same exact beliefs or practices.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                While the movement as a<\/strong> whole tended to promote a more restrictive view of women in leadership, there may have been variations in how these beliefs were applied at the local level.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                It’s also worth noting that since<\/strong> the 1970s, there has been significant progress in the understanding and affirmation of women’s gifts and leadership within Christian circles. Many churches and denominations now embrace egalitarian views, which affirm the equal value, worth, and gifting of both men and women and encourage women to serve in leadership roles, including teaching, preaching, and exercising their spiritual gifts.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                As with any theological perspectiv<\/strong>e, it’s important to approach the topic with discernment, study the Scriptures, and engage in respectful dialogue, recognizing the diversity of beliefs and interpretations on this matter within the broader Christian community.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                \"\"<\/p>\n

                                TD ADDS THIS CHRISTIAN BODY PS<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                SO THIS IS WHAT I NOW “NAME AND TRAIN<\/strong> “…FOR APOSTLES …”THE WELP” STUDIES\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

                                Note: Discovering all of this (<\/strong>slowly), this was probably the roughest time period of serving the Lord Jesus Christ in my life.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                The real reason?<\/strong> Over the many years of being sent to study the diverse USA body of Christ in ministry leadership, I watched as society, life, and the ministry became more hardened, commercial, and ambitious. Many other movements also contributed to all of this, and many ministers, including myself, did not grow up around this but thought (for a while) that this was the thing to do. But all of it wasn’t. Now we are paying a steep price.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                Toss the added white witchcraf<\/strong>t, advertising, celebrity hype, entertainment, and shallow representations of Christ and ministry. What it means to “follow Him” and be “saved” has also morphed and been lost. This is noted primarily by the lost holy fear of the Lord in most of the Church and in ministry.<\/span><\/p>\n


                                \nMy Specific Topic is “Seers Gone Wild”<\/strong> using invisible white witchcraft\/occult( aggressive,defiling, mind probing,never speaking but rumoring about what the “inner saw” (by deep scan reading you, me, many us) From FAR AWAY!<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                God is calling us OUT OF ALL<\/strong> OF THIS FALSENESS and ministry SUBMISSION (Dubbed Neo Phariseeism)\u00a0 ACCUSATION..never ceasing,” EVIL EYE demonic “witchwatching” (FAR AWAY)\u00a0 “mind reading and inner deep scanning’ for it dehumanizes, label, vilifies, generates never ending big Gossip.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                Also it reviles, publically jumps,\u00a0 murders many persons reputations<\/strong>, character assassinates and undermines..for it is a JUDAS(money), PYTHON and LEVITHAN (Job 41) major TV CELEBRITY WANNABE non contrite Big Boss Ambition..It respects “pet persons only” and is now only for the “gifted and grandiose elite”<\/span><\/p>\n

                                PLUS It ignores “real everyday walk in people<\/strong>” And that is MY TURF.<\/span><\/p>\n

                                Thus from the 1980’s onward,<\/strong> I learned about, was attacked by,and Bible Studied, yet\u00a0 SURVIVED THE NEO PHARISEES.(these who love to crack their whips (demonic energy to control) even at newbies and angels very unaware).<\/span><\/p>\n

                                But I do not boast, I must not<\/strong>….as it has been by the skin of my teeth AND over time..and much doing research, much Good Bible Study.. (Great Parents who were living epistles… and by God’s MERCY!)<\/span><\/p>\n

                                \"\"
                                \nWITHSTANDING MINSITRY HAS TO STOP!<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                LET US EACH SUMMON OUR COURAG<\/strong>E and DO WHAT IS RIGHT..no what is RIGHT FOR OURSELF, FOR ME and FOR YOU..but for the CHRIST and the LOST..<\/span><\/p>\n

                                For all of these have been making<\/strong> to HARD TO WANT TO A CHARISMATIC, TONGUE TALKING, MOSTLY GREAT WORSHIP.. CHURCH .<\/span><\/p>\n

                                \"\"
                                \nIn fact, Paul commands<\/strong> that (in these Last Days” even the Churches would allow this perilious sordid fruit..And now were are HERE in that long foretold period of time<\/span><\/p>\n

                                So along with the admonishing to<\/strong> PAULINE Hebrews 10;25 “do not forsake the fellowshipping with the saints as so have” ..WE MUST provide due teaching due to these “perilous leadeship days” and warn EVEN GOD’S PEOPLE to “turn away from” the following ministry dyfunctional unsure “FRUIT”\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

                                \"\"<\/p>\n

                                Which is listed by Paul himself: (BOTH OF THESE MAKE GREAT TEACHING LISTS)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                2 Timothy 3:1-5<\/strong>: (LONG LIST..MUST BE NOW ADDRESSED)\u00a0 “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”<\/span><\/p>\n

                                1 Timothy 6:5:<\/strong> “Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.<\/span>”<\/p>\n

                                A lot more later!<\/span><\/p>\n

                                BUT before closing Dr T wants to<\/strong> submit her own personal favorite CHARACTER and RELATIONSHIP FRUIT, NON BIASED BIBLE VERSION..also for pastoral, apostolic ministry, lay, leader, parental, youth training<\/span><\/p>\n

                                ABIDING JAMES 3:17 PURE FRUIT (even under big pressure …by enlisting\u00a0 w God’s help<\/span>)<\/strong><\/p>\n

                                James 3:17<\/strong> “But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.”<\/span><\/p>\n

                                 <\/p>\n

                                SUBMITTED AS A BODY OF CHRIST (“LESS IS MORE”) SOLEMN SELAH, FOR FOOD FOR THOUGHT!<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                Ministers, GOD BLESS!<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                TO DONATE: Check out the Give Link above on this home page<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

                                “TD SAYS, ” YOU NEED TO VIEW THIS, ME AS A RESOURCE..<\/strong>SENT TO COLLABORATE, CONTRIBUTE, NOT COMPETE BUT TO COMPLMENT, FILL IN MISSING GAPS AND DIALOGUE\u00a0 “PRO COMMUNITY” FOR SAVING THE LOST (Mature Ministry Problem Solving’Cross Body “iron sharpens iron” PS Christian Ministry Consulting, by Divine Appointment Training, IFFM Mentoring Ephesian 2:19-21<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

                                EMAIL: for VIBER, WHAT’S APP, CELL: crossbodyunity1@gmail.com<\/strong>
                                \n(C)2023 DFW Leader Ministry Fellowship All copyrights reserved under international copyright<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

                                NOTE THE ABOVE :”‘Failing to discern the Body of Christ correctly” is like Communion , it makes or breaks “peaceful unity” and safe, trustworthy “Whole” ‘community” this it is sacred, and as before the Lord”(for God is watching) Bible teaching” Paul teaches in Communion (Lord’s supper) that “some died young and were ill for failing…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":1378,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_kadence_starter_templates_imported_post":false,"_kad_post_transparent":"","_kad_post_title":"","_kad_post_layout":"","_kad_post_sidebar_id":"","_kad_post_content_style":"","_kad_post_vertical_padding":"","_kad_post_feature":"","_kad_post_feature_position":"","_kad_post_header":false,"_kad_post_footer":false,"_kad_post_classname":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1402","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-all"],"aioseo_notices":[],"aioseo_head":"\n\t\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t